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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Starting out with the Nimzo/QID (Read 13518 times)
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Re: Starting out with the Nimzo/QID
Reply #15 - 08/25/09 at 08:17:30
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BPaulsen wrote on 06/19/09 at 22:34:34:
Willempie wrote on 06/19/09 at 22:29:52:
BPaulsen wrote on 06/19/09 at 20:00:19:
I'll third this.

Sure, some work is necessary to update/complete the lines, but the ideas of the repetoire are rock-solid, and low maintenance compared to most other repetoires.

I still use the book a lot and I have never been "shot down" in these lines, even the new improvements for white are pretty minor. The worst that could happen is that you get an almost equal game. Also the consistency of the repertoire makes it very easy to play: You play for c5 against the nimzo and qid against most lines, you only deviate from that plan against Qc2 in the nimzo and some lines in the qid, although even there c5 is the plan.


Oh, the coverage of the NID/BPaulsen2 in there is very solid.

The Advance Caro-Kann (4. Nc3 Variation) has seen a big improvement over one of the recommendations (see Kasparov-Karpov, Linares 2001). That isn't such a big deal because black can just play another Karpov favorite (not mentioned in the book), namely 4...a6.

Also, the recommendation against 1. Nf3/2. c4 needs fixing (Double Fianchetto Defense is under a cloud right now). Of course, since the black side of the Catalan is mentioned in the book black can just base his repetoire around that, and play the Nimzo-English against 3. Nc3.

Aside from that I haven't noticed anything too glaring.

I don't know why the book gets as much criticism as it does, but it is clearly mostly unfair. Okay, sure, OFWAA and OFWAK are more in-depth, but the idea of this repetoire is great. It's very low maintenance, and tweaks can quickly (and safely) be made.


Considering all the interest of late in the Catalan, do you think there have been major advances in the theory that leave this section of the book wanting? Other than this and Janjgava's QGD/Catalan book there isn't much around for Black players of the Catalan....
  
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Willempie
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Re: Starting out with the Nimzo/QID
Reply #14 - 06/21/09 at 21:30:53
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jitb wrote on 06/20/09 at 16:08:21:
I did not ever play the Tartakower, but always found it interesting. Smiley

There seems to be a lot of theory in NID and jeroen3, because there are so many options for both colours. But in practice you will choose one of the options, making the total amount of theory considerably smaller.

I think that the amount of options for both players, will make the less prepared white-player confused. I guess that this is the great advantage of these openings in tournament practice.

In my experience white goes for the main lines (e3 or Qc2 against the Nimzo or for g3 against the qid), but often they arent capable of choosing a proper plan later on or even better choose a bad sideline. The amounts of times I get my opponent into some sort of Hubner setup are countless and more often than not they self-destruct. Similarly with Qc2 I get a lot of e4, which imo is just helping black.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Starting out with the Nimzo/QID
Reply #13 - 06/21/09 at 01:29:40
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smrex13 wrote on 06/20/09 at 21:19:23:
The only problem with Khalifman's Karpov book is that it's impossible to find!  I wish they would do a second run of it.

Scott


Try www.bgchess.com. I ordered a copy of OFBATK from them about six months ago when I couldn't find it in the US and had a very good experience.
  
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Re: Starting out with the Nimzo/QID
Reply #12 - 06/20/09 at 21:19:23
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The only problem with Khalifman's Karpov book is that it's impossible to find!  I wish they would do a second run of it.

Scott
  

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Re: Starting out with the Nimzo/QID
Reply #11 - 06/20/09 at 16:08:21
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I did not ever play the Tartakower, but always found it interesting. Smiley

There seems to be a lot of theory in NID and QID, because there are so many options for both colours. But in practice you will choose one of the options, making the total amount of theory considerably smaller.

I think that the amount of options for both players, will make the less prepared white-player confused. I guess that this is the great advantage of these openings in tournament practice.
  
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Re: Starting out with the Nimzo/QID
Reply #10 - 06/19/09 at 22:59:45
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BPaulsen wrote on 06/19/09 at 22:34:34:
Oh, the coverage of the NID/BPaulsen5 in there is very solid.

The Advance Caro-Kann (4. Nc3 Variation) has seen a big improvement over one of the recommendations (see Kasparov-Karpov, Linares 2001). That isn't such a big deal because black can just play another Karpov favorite (not mentioned in the book), namely 4...a6.

Also, the recommendation against 1. Nf3/2. c4 needs fixing (Double Fianchetto Defense is under a cloud right now). Of course, since the black side of the Catalan is mentioned in the book black can just base his repetoire around that, and play the Nimzo-English against 3. Nc3.

Aside from that I haven't noticed anything too glaring.

I don't know why the book gets as much criticism as it does, but it is clearly mostly unfair. Okay, sure, OFWAA and OFWAK are more in-depth, but the idea of this repetoire is great. It's very low maintenance, and tweaks can quickly (and safely) be made.

Imo the CK advance (and to a lesser extent the CK as whole) is the weakest part, but easily fixable as you mention (I used to play Qb6 imo better than a6). But yes the nimzo/qid coverage is quite up to par even now in the most critical lines.

Still it got me wondering how a Karpov in his prime would have held against Kramnik and Topalov in these lines. I am pretty sure he would have held against Kramnik in the catalan and I am even more sure he would keep Topalov at a negative score in the QID (Karpov is one of those very few players who could deal with exchange sacrifices).

Back to the original subject. I think the amount of theory is less than you think, in particular since you used to play the QGD and the ideas of that return in a lot of the QID lines (in particular ideas of the Tartakower).
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Starting out with the Nimzo/QID
Reply #9 - 06/19/09 at 22:34:34
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Willempie wrote on 06/19/09 at 22:29:52:
BPaulsen wrote on 06/19/09 at 20:00:19:
I'll third this.

Sure, some work is necessary to update/complete the lines, but the ideas of the repetoire are rock-solid, and low maintenance compared to most other repetoires.

I still use the book a lot and I have never been "shot down" in these lines, even the new improvements for white are pretty minor. The worst that could happen is that you get an almost equal game. Also the consistency of the repertoire makes it very easy to play: You play for c5 against the nimzo and qid against most lines, you only deviate from that plan against Qc2 in the nimzo and some lines in the qid, although even there c5 is the plan.


Oh, the coverage of the NID/QID in there is very solid.

The Advance Caro-Kann (4. Nc3 Variation) has seen a big improvement over one of the recommendations (see Kasparov-Karpov, Linares 2001). That isn't such a big deal because black can just play another Karpov favorite (not mentioned in the book), namely 4...a6.

Also, the recommendation against 1. Nf3/2. c4 needs fixing (Double Fianchetto Defense is under a cloud right now). Of course, since the black side of the Catalan is mentioned in the book black can just base his repetoire around that, and play the Nimzo-English against 3. Nc3.

Aside from that I haven't noticed anything too glaring.

I don't know why the book gets as much criticism as it does, but it is clearly mostly unfair. Okay, sure, OFWAA and OFWAK are more in-depth, but the idea of this repetoire is great. It's very low maintenance, and tweaks can quickly (and safely) be made.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
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Re: Starting out with the Nimzo/QID
Reply #8 - 06/19/09 at 22:29:52
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BPaulsen wrote on 06/19/09 at 20:00:19:
I'll third this.

Sure, some work is necessary to update/complete the lines, but the ideas of the repetoire are rock-solid, and low maintenance compared to most other repetoires.

I still use the book a lot and I have never been "shot down" in these lines, even the new improvements for white are pretty minor. The worst that could happen is that you get an almost equal game. Also the consistency of the repertoire makes it very easy to play: You play for c5 against the nimzo and qid against most lines, you only deviate from that plan against Qc2 in the nimzo and some lines in the qid, although even there c5 is the plan.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Starting out with the Nimzo/QID
Reply #7 - 06/19/09 at 20:00:19
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HgMan wrote on 06/19/09 at 16:51:33:
I'm struck by how many times Willempie and I still recommend Khalifman's Karpov repertoire.  For such a small book, it is a terrific repertoire...


I'll third this.

Sure, some work is necessary to update/complete the lines, but the ideas of the repetoire are rock-solid, and low maintenance compared to most other repetoires.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
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Re: Starting out with the Nimzo/QID
Reply #6 - 06/19/09 at 16:51:33
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Willempie wrote on 06/17/09 at 13:52:26:
Khalifman's Karpov repertoire book, basically covers this (and the catalan and English). It is a bit dated now of course, but the lines suggested are still the main lines. It is a safe repertoire (equality first), but always with plenty of play and you can switch (or update) particular lines easily with good books on the nimzo or qid (eg Wells for the qid and Dearing for the Nimzo), plus of course the mandatory plug for subscribing to chesspub Smiley


I'm struck by how many times Willempie and I still recommend Khalifman's Karpov repertoire.  For such a small book, it is a terrific repertoire...
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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Re: Starting out with the Nimzo/QID
Reply #5 - 06/19/09 at 13:07:25
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Thanks Smiley
That will keep me busy for a while  Grin
  
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Re: Starting out with the Nimzo/QID
Reply #4 - 06/18/09 at 22:19:03
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Jitb,

Yes, I've already switched to the Nimzo/QID.  There are a number of good books out there - here are just a few that I like for explanation:

1.  "Chess Explained: Nimzo Indian" (Vera) and "Chess Explained: QID" (Wells).  I really like the majority of the Chess Explained series, and I think these two provide a good look at the main lines.

2.  "Play the Nimzo Indian" (Dearing) and "Play the Queens Indian" (Greet).  These are both repertoire books, and I don't play all of their lines.  Nevertheless, both are great writers and provide interesting commentary.

3.  For me, the most useful books are three of the older ones:  Emms "Easy Guide to the Nimzo Indian."  It's a repertoire book, but it really explains concepts well.  The other Nimzo book that I like is "Mastering the Nimzo Indian" by Kosten.  It categorizes every variation by pawn structures and is quite an instructive book.  Finally, there is a QID book by Mednis, Soltis, and ?? that is one of the best opening books I've ever seen in terms of explaining the important concepts behind the opening. 

I'm sorry if any of the above titles and/or authors are incorrect.  I'm traveling so I don't have my trusty library within reach.

Best,
Scott
  

"Behind every beautiful thing there's been some kind of pain"  - Bob Dylan
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Re: Starting out with the Nimzo/QID
Reply #3 - 06/18/09 at 07:46:13
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@ willempie: Dankje voor de aanbeveling! Ook Nederlands Smiley

@ scott: So you allready changed your repertoire? Did you use any great books?
  
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Re: Starting out with the Nimzo/QID
Reply #2 - 06/18/09 at 04:07:08
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I'm in the same boat.  I played/studied the QGD/QGA/Slav for quite a while, but I never really found anything that I liked.  I disliked the passive positions in the QGD, and I didn't like giving up the center in the Slav/QGA.  Although the Nimzo/QID is more "theoretical", I found that there are some fairly thematic lines (...c5 vs. the Nimzo and Bb7 vs. the QID) that give you interesting positions without the concession of some of the other 1.d4 openings. I may change my mind later, but I can't imagine playing anything but the Nimzo/QID vs. 1.d4 for the rest of my career.

Scott

jitb wrote on 06/17/09 at 13:20:56:
Hi,

Usualy I played the QGD against d4, but I found it to passive and I did not realy find any ways to fight for an advantage.  Sad So I decided to pick up the Nimzo and jeroen11.  Grin

I took a look in one of my opening books and the theory seems a lot. I could use some help. What do you advise to start out with? Are there any good books on this subject?

Thanks

  

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Re: Starting out with the Nimzo/QID
Reply #1 - 06/17/09 at 13:52:26
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Khalifman's Karpov repertoire book, basically covers this (and the catalan and English). It is a bit dated now of course, but the lines suggested are still the main lines. It is a safe repertoire (equality first), but always with plenty of play and you can switch (or update) particular lines easily with good books on the nimzo or qid (eg Wells for the qid and Dearing for the Nimzo), plus of course the mandatory plug for subscribing to chesspub Smiley
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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